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Thread: Bike wanting to stand up while trail braking

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    rocky hill, ct USA


    Quote Originally Posted by downshift View Post
    Care to elaborate? It sounds like from what smuttnasty said that it should get easier to turn with the forks compressed. Is that wrong?
    Yes, shortening the trail will make the bike tip in faster but it doesn't mean it wants to stay down however. There are a lot of factors involved in this as motorcycle geometry is a delicate dance of give and take. You can improve some things at the cost of others. There is no magic, one setup that does everything perfectly. It is a giant exercise in compromise.

    As for exact "twist this knob 2 clicks and then move the doohickey 1.023756mm to the left", no, I cannot help you. What I can tell you is that I had a similar problem, had a discussion with my suspension tuner (Computrack: Boston) which centered around "I can make it stay down but you wont like it" and then we made some adjustments...too many to go into and we are working off of a laser measured baseline so we have a very firm understanding of where we are starting and ending.

    The end result was that the bike did in fact handle trail braking much better but it made the bike unstable under heavy braking and cost me some rear grip under hard acceleration at lean. I decided that the tradeoff wasn't worth it so I moved it back to where I had it. We are really splitting hairs at this point however as it is not like it trail brakes badly, I just want it to be better.

    So, I would start by saying that bikes from the factory are set up very poorly for performance riding, laughably so. If this is something that really bothers you, my advice is to take it to a suspension tuner, have them wave their magic wand (over your bike and your wallet) and get back a bike that handles the way it was meant to.

    I know a fair bit about suspension and geometry and I can usually get a bike pretty close. I am also a HUGE proponent of doing things myself, but there are times when going to an expert is just what the doctor ordered and this is one of those instances. Getting close is ok, but as the saying goes "the devil is in the details". People make careers out of understanding motorcycle geometry, I trust in their experience and knowledge.
    Last edited by DucatiMichael; 02-20-2016 at 08:25 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2006


    I didn't read any of this.

    Did we find an actual geometry problem, or just determine that Gabe sucks?

    Inquiring minds want to know.
    LRRS/CCS Amateur #514 / RSP Racing / Woodcraft / MTAG Pirelli / Dyno Solutions / Tony's Track Days / Sport Bike Track Gear / 434racer / Brunetto T-Shirts / Knox / GMD Computrack

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
    This place is about as family friendly as donkey porn.
    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    Noel is my hero

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2011


    Let someone with a lot of track experience with the same bike ride it at the track for a session and see if they think it's properly tuned. Even if they like it, it might not be exactly right for you, but probably close enough to know if there is a real or just perceived problem.
    Last edited by prev1; 02-22-2016 at 02:08 PM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Westerly, RI


    Quote Originally Posted by prev1 View Post
    Let someone with a lot of track experience with the same bike ride it at the track for a session and see if they think it properly tuned. Even if the like it, it might not be exactly right for you, but probably close enough to know if there is a real or just perceived problem.
    Kurtz volunteered to be a test dummy last season but I didn't feel comfortable letting someone ride something I had put the wrench to until I had taken it through its paces first. Now that everything is sorted I'm hoping he's still down to test it out. I would ask Noel but he'd probably come up with some sort of smart ass response like "there's no way I'm getting on that POS death trap you built".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
    If the owner decided tomorrow that we'd change business models and start selling a product that would allow you to force bees to sting babies, I'd stay there as long as they kept compensating me the same way.
    Current Track Day to Crash Ratio: 10:3

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